"Sucker Punch" Review
Finally, my thoughts on "Sucker Punch."
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The Cinema Snob: "Sucker Punch" Review
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I do understand why many people don't seem to understand the movie, but I personally though it was an amazing movie for many reasons (most of which concern spoilers). The first thing is that Badydoll does belong in the mental institution, she was not wrongly accused, Sweet-Pea was. That is what all the sequences try to represent among other things.
I could go on, but those that don't like the movie, just don't like it and I respect that, there are legitimate criticisms (characterization is one that pops into mind). I just want others to see the movie and form their own opinion.
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I thought the movie was alright, but you're right. It's just alright. The reason being is it seems it's all a bunch of slow-mo and not a heavy plot. As for it being original, it isn't. There is actually a graphic novel that I have heard of. I'll tell you, this was supposed to be an R rated movie. And it wasn't original. It was originally a graphic novel that was very violent. For example, one of the girls gets horribly killed by the dragon to the point where you see entrails. When I heard about this, I was disappointed. They made this for 13-21 year old girls who wanted to see this sort of thing, but Snyder chumped out on the rating. I don't need a slo-mo sex scene, but accuracy would have been nice and the audience could have handled a bit more gore. Bottom line, it was ok, but stop making 300 over and over again. So far there is 300, 300:Watchmen and 300: Sucker Punch. It's feeling like a bad movie franchise now.
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I know you said you don't care to understand this movie, but if you change your mind and want to read a counterargument to your no substance conclusion, this is one that I've seen: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/03/sucker-punch-part-1-the-story-that-no-one-is-talking-about
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Thank you for posting this link. It provided a different perspective and analysis that, for me, enhanced my experience with the film and it's context. Thank you.
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SPOILERS
hate to break it to you snob but the brothel is not real. The brothel is a dream. And then when she dances....it is a dream inside the dream. yes, they went an inception route. The brothel never existed. Once you figure that out the rest of things start to fall into place.
Also, the 3 girls that "die" never existed. In the real world they never mention them, only the girl that escaped and her...who is the only girl before the dreams start that baby doll sees in the real world.
A lot of the important plot points are just said with one sentence each. granted 18 minutes of the movie were cut because the MPAA are jerks so chances are the movie will make more sense to you if you see the director's cut.
but the movie's substance is meant to be like watching for symbolism....just like 90% of dream movies.
that and they do a main character switch. like when Baby and...Sweet pea (?) meet for the first time, and she says "I'm the star." The like first 20 minutes are from one perspective (since the plot then all revolves around her and her make believe sister), the rest of the movie is from another, and at the very end it goes back to Baby's perspective. That's another part where once you catch it, the movie makes a bit more sense.
The "depth" of the movie is how it twists the rules of film (where the plot points are not said and you need to "watch" the plot points) and it's camera-work. For example, the scene where the camera seems to go through the mirror multiple times, to the point where you aren't sure if you are looking at the real thing or the reflection. And the opening scene with the stage that foreshadows the main character perspective shift, etc.
Sorry if I seem really snobby myself. Just trying to help.
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I know the brothel's not real. I mention that in the review, and tip toe around it. I wasn't that much asleep =)
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All the girls were real. It shows them for like one second in the asylum before we go into the brothel. They were all sitting at tables around the platform-stage thing.
I specifically remember seeing Rocket (the short-haired sister) because.. um.. well, I thought she was hot.
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But, he didn't ask for help. He said he didn't like the movie and that he was fine with the fact that he didn't like it.
And to say "hate to break it to you" as if he gave a damn in the first place is a condescending prick move. As if to say:
"You disagree with my opinion about a subject (in this case a movie), so I will act as if you really can't understand a work of genius that is above you."
Now before you attempt to calm me, let me assure you that I don't care about your snobby opinion. I just wanted to let you know that people (like Brad and the people who read you b.s.) are not stupid.
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Aw, that's too bad you didn't like it, my sister and I really did. I myself found a lot of substance and enjoyment in it, it'll probably be one of the few movies I actually own when it's out.
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I enjoyed the movie, but at the same time I agree with you. I hope somebody takes this "idea", breaks it down and makes a better movie. It won't be original any more but it might be better.
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Someone did make a better movie out of this idea. It was called Brazil.
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I did like Brazil. In fact I should go watch it now.
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I don't know what happened to Zack Snyder after 300 was made, to me, but it seems, that is all he's making is this stylized, blue screen disaster, that puts George Lucas to shame. The last good movie he directed was The Dawn of the Dead remake. Unfortunately, now the money talks, and be damned his creativity.
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I agree entirely. It seemed as though there were three movies that kept interrupting each other. Any of the three movies might have been pretty good, but they kept walking all over each other and it just made things dull and unmoving.
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Just wanted to say this, A movie called RUBBER is supposedly coming out on April Fools. If it isn;t a hoax, you're just the guy to review it.
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It's already floating around on the net. I saw it 2 weeks ago. I thought it was pretty entertaining actually. Very dry style of humor.
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Funny how this movie is pretty well disliked while Scott Pilgrim has legions of fans (online). They're both shallow, over stylized visual wankfests for nerds by the looks of it.
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And I dug both of them. Enjoyment is enjoyment man, who gives a shit about whether it's "deep" or not.
And I would like to say that Scott Pilgrim was better paced, better acted and better directed.
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Some people can get their fun from tipping over trashcans and smashing windows so no, there is enjoyment and enjoyment.
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Thanks for saving me my money. Good review, as usual. Also, diggin' the Cheers shirt.
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As a guy that couldn't make it all the way through 300 (I found it so mind numbingly dumb, and not in a charming way), I feel kind of vindicated by Snyder's output since. It seems that the reception for each movie he makes has gradually gotten worse, and it's like the filmmaker disguise he's been wearing is slowly getting peeled off with each new work. I have a feeling if 300 came out now, and it was Sucker Punch that was his first movie of that type, 300 would be getting the reviews Sucker Punch is. It was the visual gimmick people fell in love with, not the stories themselves. And now that they're used to the gimmick, he's been exposed.
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I hated this movie. Absolutely HATED it. For all the reasons Brad mentioned, but also, I honestly think this film is going to become the new Donnie Darko. You can already see on the imdb boards that its fanbase is forming and it's comprised mostly of semi-literate 14-25 year olds who saw this film and all of a sudden think that they're philosophy majors.
Brad actually called it when he suggested that the film's apologists might fall back on the "You just didn't understand it!" defense, because it's already all over the damn message boards.
You know what? I did understand this movie, and it's still empty, shallow, and vacuous.
Even the opposite defense doesn't work, because when someone says "it's just hot chicks, explosions, gunfire, and over-the-top mayhem! What more could you want?" I let them know that my favorite film so far this year is Drive Angry, and that what "more" I could want is a fucking story that makes me care about what I'm seeing. Piper in Drive Angry was a stronger female character than the entire cast of Sucker Punch combined, and she was a character that I cared about and rooted for.
I'm ranting but fuck, I just hated this movie with a fiery passion. Again, there ARE worse movies (I still want to forget about Dogtooth), but the apologists piss me off almost as much as Boondock Saints fans.
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Hey Mate, while i appreciate your candour about the film, it would behoove you not to call everyone who like this film apologists, it's just cripples the debate because the people don't have anything substantive to say their just making excuses, and that pisses me off. Your entitled to hate the film, it's your opinion but please don't call people who happen to like idiots who have no taste in movies, lets have the debate on why the film sucked or not rather than just taking the high ground and say my opinion is right and yours it stupid. I personally liked the film because it was a high concept idea with great visuals and entertaining enough storyline. It was not what i expected and yes it did dissapoint to an extent, it was a good try by Zach Synder but a hit an miss for him to make something like Inception, but clearly not in the same league. Sorry if you feel the defense of the film comes from people who say you don't understand it or it's just mindless action, but there's more than one opinion on why this film was enjoyable see Jonathan Kim's review or Teresa Jusino's.
I enjoyed Sucker Punch, but i'm not an apologist, just someone who though the film which was visually arresting, entertaining and overall a positive cinematic experience showing the growing talent of Zach Snyder and the growing profiles of aussie actresses Abbie Cornish and Emily Browning. Your view is entirely valid as mine as i ask you to respect that.
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This is addressed to Dan.
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Hey Brad, i had a feeling you wouldn't like this film but i glad you didn't really despise it with a furious vegeance towards the director. I'll agree the film isn't perfect by any stretch but it was a visually entertaining film that tried but failed to match it's lofty aspirations. I personally enjoyed the film, i gave a near essay long reason the first time i reviewed this film but i won't go into it again. I thought the storyline was interesting enough, the battle sequences were visually arresting and the acting was good all round and kudos for more aussies in lead roles, i love Emily Browning. So i do respect your opinion and indiference to Sucker Punch, i don't think it's nearly as bad as the critics made it out to be. I think Zach Snyder can become a great director and hopefully his colloboration with Christopher Nolan on the Superman reboot will give him some pointers.
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I can't say I liked this movie that much. I really wish it had an R-rating, less bullet time, and characters that were better developed. I really want to like Zack Snyder as a director too; I like his style, but I'm not too impressed by the movies he's done.
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I, myself, have done a review on this one on Le Blogue de Maxime Laperle, a french film blog, and I am Maxime Laperle, how are you.
Despite having an interesting style and aesthetic, and concentring mostly in its direction, the movie has no plot or script whatsoever, in any way. The acting passes by par, while Browning gives a cold wooden perfomance has Baby Doll, all the five women simply do physical acting for the entire movie, without actually giving a performance.
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hey Brad, if you're interested in Mad Men actors in other stuff, I heard that Aaron Stanton is gonna be in L.A Noire which in itself looks fucking awesome.
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On a side note, I will be reviewing on the mean time your directorial and actorial debut Cheap(1999) but in French, as a serious critique.
I don't actually feel like writing it in English, it's not of my own essor, as I would say. I'll let you know in the comments section or by e-mail only if you want to, if my own review is up.
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On a side note, I will be making a serious critique on your first actorial and directorial debut Cheap (1999), but it'll be in French.
You can learn a new language this way if you want to. I don't want to write in English, because all in all, I'm French and it's not of my own essor. When the review itself will be up, I will let you know in the comments section, or by e-mail if you want to.
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I liked this movie, but I won't call it a masterpiece. It was entertaining though and, like you Brad, I could see it gaining a cult following. I also read somewhere that there will be a directors cut when it comes to DVD and that a lot had to be cut for the film to get a PG13. I will be interested to see how extra scenes change the story of the movie, for better or worse.
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I knew this movie wouldn't work out as well as everyone was hoping when it 1st came out! The trailers made it look like some sort of anime meets American McGee's Alice in Wonderland, but it's just another movie with awesome visuals and crappy plot! It's another movie where all the cewl stuff isn't real in the movie itself! It's like the Village just this is at least maybe watchible for a seond time! I think the one place this movie might be very popular would be Japan because the plot and design looks alot like the adverage anime/manga! I might watch this on DVD someday, but I'm not seeing in theaters, but I wasn't really planning on it in the 1st place! I just hope Zack Snyder's Man of Steel will be good! I like his other works but again alll them are based on already excisting stories!
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I loved this movie, I went into it without expecting anything deep, just an over the top action movie. But I agree with EVERYTHING Brad says. And I have to say that seeing into each character's past would have helped so much. Why didn't the screenwriter even think to put it in there? In fact I didn't care for any of the character's except Rocket, and she died first. After she was killed I started checking my watch and wishing it would end.
Why did I like this again?
Well it was pretty and action packed and seemed to have little throw backs to other genre's I love, plus Rocket, so up until the fourth act wasn't bad.
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Working on my own review of this. You're absolutely right on pretty much every front. I actually thought you might enjoy this, though- I knew either you or Spoony would love it and the other one would hate it, but I honestly expected Spoony to tear it apart for being vacuous and for you to say you loved the dragons and shit.
Damn, I almost said what I thought of this movie. I hate to flagrantly self promote but I'm not giving this away without my review even being up yet.
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But there is no mention of them dying in the real world by the good doctor.
What existed were people that she based her visions on. But Rocket, Amber, and Blondie, themselves....not real. Chances are the real people are still alive. It's merely the dreams that died. Blondie, Amber and Rocket only represented a character trait, and were given the face of someone she saw.
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I never said you were stupid. I never insulted you in any way.
But going, "I don't want to understand it" doesn't really help. You can't hate something if you don't understand it. If you understand it, sure, dislike it all you want. But when you don't understand it, that isn't a real opinion. Its like when you see people that blindly back politicians without even knowing about any of the policies. Then when you mention the really bad stuff they go, "I don't want to hear it." At that point, no matter what you choose, you sort of invalidate yourself.
And no, I am not suggesting that "not getting" Sucker Punch is anywhere near as bad as that. Although there has been a very odd anti-feminist uproar on certain sites thanks to this movie.
I'm just saying, it's a bit unfair to judge a movie while fully admitting that you don't even want to know if what you say is even accurate.
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No it isn't. A film's first purpose is to capture your attention and make you *want* to care. And if you can't even muster up the give a fuck to get into the plot of a movie, that says a whole lot about the movie itself.
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Haven't seen SuckerPunch, but here is some food for thought. It sounds like Zach Snyder can be a good director when he's working with a pre-established product, but not on his own original work. I liked his Dawn Of The Dead and Watchmen (hated 300), but perhaps it's because the writing on those films did a lot of the heavy lifting for him in terms of characterization, plot, story telling etc. His style over substance, flashy, green screen visual style can work on something like Watchmen because the depth and character development is already built in before he even attached his name to the project. A huge chunk of the people who saw the film already knew who Rorschach and Doctor Manhattan were. He just has to make it look pretty. Same thing for Dawn Of The Dead. On the other hand, with Sucker Punch, a story where he has to establish everything from the ground up....didn't work out too well.
In fairness, I'm not going to knock Zach Snyder for only being succesful at adaptations. It does take a certain kind of talent to that. Look at Ang Lee for the exact opposite. Phenomenal director (Ice Storm, Sense and Sensability, Brokeback Mountain) and most critics will tell you he is a signifigantly better director than Snyder. Hell, he won two Best Director Oscars. But when Lee had to work with the Hulk character? He turned a comic book movie about a monster/superhero into an arthouse flick. And it didn't work. I mean, I can't think of another case of an Academy Award winning director having one of their films rebooted just a few years later.
Oh well, at least Zach Snyder is better than Uwe Boll....speaking of which....could you imagine seeing Zach Snyder's version of "Auschwitz?"
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This is a movie where steam powered nazis represent lobotomy patients (they are already dead).
I'm just shocked that so many people just miss these things. I mean this movie is not hard. It is not some hidden subtext that is near impossible to spot. This movie is simple. Everything that is "hidden" is hammered down with the subtlety of a brick to the head. This should be the easiest dream movie to "get."
The fact that no one catches it is bizarre to me. I figured everyone would complain about how the symbolism is too damn obvious.
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I think you're reaching/projecting.
What did the cyborg ninja's represent?
What did the giant samurai warriors represent?
I think it has more to do with maintaining that PG13 rating. Saturday morning cartoon villains mean no blood and guts.
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I mean if you understood Inception or Paprika, you should be able to understand all of Sucker Punch's symbolism within 30 seconds.
I find it very difficult that people claim to understand Inception yet they can't understand Sucker Punch. It's like passing Calculus and then failing the concept of negative numbers. It just shouldn't happen.
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No no, I got it. I just don't care =)
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Except Inception had good actors and a better director.
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Also that Christopher Nolan has done prior original work and also kicked arse.
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I have not yet seen the movie but I will say that I think Zack Snyder needs to step away from the "Highly Stylized" projects for a while otherwise he'll wind up like Robert Zemeckis who disappeared into his CGI Gimick films and wind up only doing Creepy Christmas films.
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According to my sister, the story is basically that the main character goes to a mental hospital, does stuff, and gets illegally lobotomized at the end. In between all that, her time there is visualized as being trapped in a brothel run by a corrupt man. In reality, the corrupt man is just one of the nurses, who was bribed to have Babydoll lobotomized so her step-dad could get her late mother's inheritance. Eventually, the dance instructor, actually the lead psychologist learns that the guy was forging her signature and has him arrested.
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At least the dancing in this was 100 times better then the dancing in Black Swan *rimshot*
I'm guessing you're not a fan of Jenna Malone or Emily Browning, seeing how you didn't mention them once. I enjoy both of them and wish them nothing but the best and hopefully they steal back the thunder that that hipster bitch Ellen Page stole from them.
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So I would explain why I think there's actually a fair bit of substance, but you said you don't care so have fun declaring it to be as bad as Auschwitz and simultaneously admitting that you don't give a shit that you're completely wrong.
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I love it when people get protective and defensive over a toy that no one is trying to take from them.
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I know. Pathetic isn't it?
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To clarify:
Brad understands the movie and its symbolism.
He doesn't get "why" Snyder actually did a lot of it. Such as, why use stylized action sequences to represent dancing when he could have done a better job with the actual dancing? Why use symbolism to represent things that aren't really that necessary to represent? Why not just focus on one aspect of the movie and make that part good, rather than not doing well with all the myriad inputs thrown into it?
Honestly, if he was going the route with turning Sucker Punch into a sort of crazy art house flick that really gets into the minds of its subjects, he could have done that. If he wanted to make a stylized action flick happening in someone's mind, he could have done that. If he wanted to even make it a thriller in a mental institution, he could have done that, too. The problem is, he didn't do those, he basically tried to do all three and they just seemed to rob each others' momentum. Not to mention that, for any of those three ideas to work, you need strong characterization.
Honestly, he should have just hired himself a good writer, given him an outline of what he wanted to do, and guided the process after someone who knew what they were doing had scripted a bunch of stronger characters.
I don't think anyone who knows anything about movies doesn't actually understand what each little thing means in the film. It's not subtle. The larger question being asked is, "So what? Why do it? Were much of these things really necessary or is the film just packed with so much shit that any other substance is just pushed out?"
As a movie, it has fearsome teeth but no muscles in its jaw. It looks amazing, I'll give it that, but there's nothing behind it to really make it effective. There are better, more effective ways to do just about everything Snyder was trying to accomplish with this film, and it lacks essential components of good film-making.
However, it -is- at least creative and original. I'm not saying Snyder shouldn't try again, as it at least proves he understands what a film is and can, at the very least, make an effective attempt to make an original film. Personally, I think that hiring a writer or spending a lot more time writing likable (or at least legible) characters would help his cause immensely. I honestly think he can do better than this and be one of the greats, considering his dedication to what he's doing. Given the proper attention and dedication, he can make a real masterpiece.
I'm also just saying this isn't it.
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The interesting thing about this movie is that everything is a metaphor in the end. You can enjoy it as much or as little as you choose to. In a movie where everything is something else, it's the recurring themes that matter most. The details are all there, it's up to the viewer to decide how they fit together. I think what most people find to be the weakness of the movie is that it moves too fast without explaining things, but I suppose if it didn't it wouldn't be called sucker punch.
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I didn't mind Sucker Punch, even though the director was responsible for that beeping Dawn of the Dead remake (a film that makes me angry).
I don't think Sucker punch has any depth. It's just surface detail. Basically, I approached it as a movie about girls in fetish clothes fighting. On that level it works much like one of those Hong Kong films with girls that turn into lethal killing machines. I'm also a fan the B24 liberator and I liked the scene featuring one. I do think that it's odd that genre fans can accept Asian action films that center on young women, but then find a sudden inner core of anti-sexism when it's a Western film about young women. It's a comic book movie.
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This movie is not deep or especially clever, but it had great cinematography, nice action scenes and a plot that made sense. I found the backdrops striking and the music video/anime/video game style unique and honestly beautiful.
My problem with this film is simple, Synder is clearly an inexperienced director, the pacing of the movie and extremely lacking characterization hurt this movie, hard. Honestly, all the cool ideas and awesome battle didn't really lead anywhere, and while the ending was decent enough, it seemed like it could've been so much more. (I wanted a final battle, dammit!) Plus he didn't mix the fantastic and the real nearly well enough.
p.s. The "Dance" sequences make more sense if you think of them as representation of a fugue-ish state where the girls go into a fantasy world that allows them to get through the extremely difficult and mind wracking task of breaking free by replacing an office with a WWI bunker and horny guards with orcs.
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It was a movie spectacle for the sake of being a spectacle. Eye candy popcorn flick which is what I expected, and for that I liked it. I enjoyed the film for being what it essentially is. Story is simple but I didn't scoff at this film because of it, I had fun.
Have I seen better (action) movies? Hell yeah, of course. But I left feeling satisfied that I spent $12 seeing a PG-13 movie that could pull off cool action sequences without all the gore.
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Huh.. So this movie is completely different to what i thought it would be about. But i admit, i haven't informed myself well. Only saw some screenshots and read some tags. Until i saw your review, i thought Sucker Punch would be an overstyled but simple action movie about a female elite-soldier squad in world war I. I think this would have been pretty awesome, too bad it's not like that.
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Actually, anyone who claims to get the movie and says you just don't get all the depth, don't actually get the movie.
If you do get the movie, you understand it's a failure from top to bottom.
Starting with the ending and the message. If you put your mind to it girls, you can do everything. However, the main characters, said girls, all FAIL at their goals. The ones who want to be free, either die or are lobotomized, and the one who gets free, didn't care much about freedom, she wanted to protect her sister, keep her alive - who is dead.
Further, the reduction of men as pure evil caricatures, even the ones who are supposedly on the right side, war heroes, are reduced to evil non-caring murders who killed humans, who got put back up through steam technology and the girls only have to kill the already dead zombies.
Thus, women aren't empowered, as Zack Schneider says it should do, it does the opposite. It infantilizes women, taking away any moral agency from them. The fact that non of the inmates' past is shown and why they're in the asylum shows this more.
If he wanted to empower women, the ending should be that the original scene that got babydoll stuck in the asylum was false, not an evil man that she was defending against, but she was just greedy for her mother's inheritance while he got a third of it, so she went to kill him, her sister attempted to stop her from killing their stepfather and in a fit of rage that her sister who be against her, she shoots her in the head.
Indeed, the worst part, is that there are pieces around, where it seems this was the intention; it seems this movie functions in the 1930s yet the gun used to shoot the stepfather and kill her sister is a modern one. She also has perfectly "accurately predicted" modern weapons.
The true empowering of women: give the moral agency. Have her go to prison willingly for attempted murder and murder in the 2nd degree, and even have her say: "This is my story, and I'm the villain."
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why would "woman empowerment" be that Baby doll is actually greedy and killed her sister?
And Rocket isn't dead. Rocket is just a made up figure to represent a character trait. The "real" Rocket was not the sister of Sweet pea and likely never even talked to teh group. Baby just used a familar face to represent the character. She actually suceeded in getting teh knife, even though in the dream she fails. That contradicts. Rocket did not literally die, it was meant to represent getting rid of an unneeded part of herself. Same with Amber and Blondie.
The main message is if you put your mind to it you can win. They did. The one girl escaped and the other one sacrificed herself in order to expose her father and the doctor. The other girls never existed. They won by say 75% (let's say Baby half won her part).
And all men are not evil in the film. there was a boyfriend subplot, and the guardian angel is a man.
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"why would 'woman empowerment' be that Baby doll is actually greedy and killed her sister?"
Because it makes a a woman a moral agent for the first time in just about all of cinematic history. And it isn't by making her a perfect angel, it is done by making her take responsibility for her actions.
And no, Rocket IS an actual person, who IS Sweet Peas actual sister. You know, why? Because if she wasn't an actual person, and what happens in Babydoll's delusion doesn't at least somewhat represent reality; NOTHING HAPPENS! The whole movie, and everything in it, becomes entirely inconsequential and nothing was ever undertaken.
Also, if Sweet Pea was always just one of two people working to get out - why the f was she AGAINST getting out in Babydoll's delusion? It's another part of the delusion must at least somewhat represent reality; or it becomes entirely pointless. You might as well have endless scenes of Babydoll meditating in the middle of the jungle, and doing nothing but meditating in the middle of the jungle for all the impact it has on the story.
And no, they didn't win. Like I said; Sweet Pea wasn't very interested in leaving, she wanted to protect her sister and failed. Babydoll needed to get out and failed.
And the only reason Babydoll got lobotomized is because the head psychologist is a complete idiot. She was PRESENT when the lobotomy was done, while she didn't sign the order. You'd think she'd say: "Stop, what are you doing, I didn't order her to get lobotomized."
Besides which, Babydoll didn't need to get lobotomized to get to her father and the doctor, she needed to escape and get to the police. You see, if getting lobotomized equals getting caught and locked up, the father and the doctor would never conspire to get her lobotomized to begin with. In fact, the whole lobotomy was supposed to stop them from getting caught.
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Why is this Happening the movie...... WAS Cornell Sanders there?
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Off topic, will you be taking the Diet Dew Challenge? I know your not much for sports so you may not be aware that there is a Diet Dew Challenge. It's been advertised all over ESPN. Anyway, they have two flavors of Mountain Dew and they want people to vote on which one to keep. It sounds right up the alley for a Brad Tries. I'm surprised you haven't already done it.
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I haven't seen "Sucker Punch" yet, but I'll probably like it. Namely because I like 99.999 percent of all movies I see. In fact, I've only ever seen 2 movies I didn't like. "Black Devil Doll From Hell" (The remake was awesome, though)and "Equilibrium".
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I understand people who don't like Suck Punch. There isn't a law saying you have to like it.
I thought it was OK. I still maintain that a lot of people who over analyze its faults would wet themselves praising it if the girls were Asian or cartoons. And if the film was aimed more clearly at a cult audience. As it is, I also suspect that some of the criticism comes down to the usual bleating about PG rated movies and a suspicion that sucker punch may be aimed at girls.
Obviously, I'm basing my opinions on seeing it on a big screen and not on a torrent download where i could watch it semi drunk for free.
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God damn it, I was waiting for this review but cant watch it yet, because I have yet to see the movie (Thursday...)
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People arguing about the movie's deeper message are the one's missing the point I think. It doesn't matter if there's deeper symbolism or not, the move still wastes a good 30-40 minutes on irrelevant action scenes and all five girls still have barely developed personalities. Whether they're real or not doesn't matter, they're still not enjoyable to watch onscreen. The action scenes are pretty, but at the same time I also found boring, me and my friends left the theater saying the same. If you don't care about the characters, if they're not at least likable, which only Rocket even came close to approaching, then who gives a damn?
In my own mind the movie either needed to take itself less seriously and just go for total action schlock with the girls spouting one liners and having fun, or it needed to cut back on what's there if it wanted to be taken seriously and spend more time on character development. Snyder can't have it both ways.
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They aren't meant to be developed. They are just character traits. they are purposefully one-dimensional because they only represent a part of the person. So, yes, none of them were really memorable....Amber in particular (they could have cut her entirely veryeasily). If you hate that, then OK, I'm fine with that. I'm just saying why they are like that.
Now if you don't enjoy the action scenes or characters....OK. I can't change a valid opinion.
What I just don't like is when people take the dream world as 100% truth. Why? The dream movie openly contradicts the real world. So why take the dreams as accurate?
now there were 18 minutes cut so maybe on the DVD this stuff will make more sense and you might like it better. But we'll see.
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And therein lies the fault in your argument. Most of the people who like it seem to focus on it and only it. The people who don't are honestly comparing it to other movies that have done the same thing.
I doubt Snyder didn't develop his characters as an artistic choice, I just don't think the man has the experience yet to be able to craft a film on paper rather than as a set of images in his mind. This movie could very obviously have been done with better characterization and most of its detractors would have enjoyed it (personally, I don't think it should have gone too schlocky, as mentioned above, because I don't think it's retro enough to pull it off).
Snyder just didn't spend the time on it. Not as an intentional choice to somehow show how they're personality traits made manifest, but because the characters in this movie are just vehicles to showcase the action. In essence, the movie can hardly say its empowered the women when all it did was bounced them around the screen like marionettes and didn't actually turn them into something resembling a character.
There are plenty of movies that blur reality and use people to represent more abstract concepts that have actually done it better. Or at least, movies that have actually turned those characters into characters and made you care about them. Snyder really has no excuse here besides the fact that he just doesn't know how to create characters with measurable personality.
I don't see how that's even over-analytical, as characterization is one of the primary elements of good narrative. As a spectacle it's impressive, but I think it's reasonable to have expected more than a spectacle. Regardless, as I've previously stated, I think Snyder, with either time or a good scriptwriter, can craft a masterpiece. This isn't it. It's in the correct direction, but there's no meat to it.
Look at movies like Fight Club, who have abstract concepts represented as people but have much better characterization involved, for where Snyder could have gone. I don't think anyone can be blamed for wanting him to have done so. his film had a lot of potential. He just didn't put the time into the meat of it and decided to garnish all the side dishes.
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And the people arguing that the movie is deeper aren't missing the point. Fun is subjective. if you liked the movie or not is not what we are arguing. You didn't like the action, we did. That's OK. What we are arguing against are the people who say there is NO subtext. We are merely saying, "yes there is."
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I never said the movie was a masterpiece. It's a pseudo-philosophical action movie like the Matrix movies. I never claimed this movie should win awards. There are movies that do the same thing this movie does, but do it better.
I merely state that saying there is no substance is incorrect.
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Yes, thank you for your riveting arguments on the merits of "substance".
My bowels hold more substance than this film.
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I thought the movie was udder crap and glad I didn't have to use my own money to pay for it. I'll go back to watching classic movies if this is all that comes out.
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To be honest, I expect one of two things that will happen if I see this film: it will either be so crazy a trainwreck that I actually end up enjoying it in a similar way to Highlander 2 or it could be so mind-bendingly awful that there is little to no merit worthy of mention, like say Repo Men.
Who knows, maybe if I end up enjoying it, I will be told to 'watch more action movies, ones that are actually atrocious' again.
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Whose Army blouse is it you're wearing, Brad? If I sent you one would you wear one of mine in a video?
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Brad: THANK YOU for being the only other person I know of who thought The Boondock Saints films were crap!
That made my day! Thanks man! {I liked Sucker Punch, for the mindless eyecandy it was, and if Snyder was truthful about it, that's all the film was!}
~_M.H._~
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So, an awful movie that is only cool for the sake of being cool? Are you sure Tarantino didn't make it? (seriously, though, you CAN'T make a film worse than Pulp Fiction.)
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Heh... I actually liked the movie, and I knew Brad would hate it. While I liked it, I agree with alot of his points:
It should have been R, having a PG or PG13 movie about a brothel or stripclub is as stupid as the "shower scene" that doesn't show any skin. (hate it on TV)
I didn't know that the movie would be a dream inside of a dream..until the day I went to the movie. I think it would have been much better if the whole movie was within the dream within and dream.. I thought those scenes were so awesome. The second dream *to get the map*, reminded me of Mutant Chronicles.. the World War I fighting (zeppelins, bi-planes and "the Kaiser" was WWI not WW II Brad
All the girls are hot: Babydoll, Sweet pea, Amber, Blondie and Rocket.. and maybe the other girls were imaginary.. because on the stage only Sweetpea removed her costume, while they others didn't until it turned into a Brothel.
Overall I liked it, but it could have been alot better.
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Watched it, can't say I liked it. I'll disagree with you on the dancing thing, though. No matter how well Babydoll danced, she probably wasn't going to hit a universal turn-on switch. Shifting the scene to the empowerment fantasy that apparently made her so attractive made sense. ...It didn't really work, became tedious sooner than it should have, and was vaguely condescending in spite of itself, but it made sense.
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Ehh! I liked it cuz I went into it with exactly no expectations, just went along with some friends, and found it to be quite a fun flick. It wasn't too deep or symbolic, I understand everything that went on, and even though I felt like it was reeeally overusing the CGI, at least the themes were pretty fun. I mean, steampunk zombie soldiers? That's FUN. Substance? Yeah, it was lacking it.
Great movie? No. Fun movie? In my opinion, sure.
Then again, I had had quite a bit of rum before going to see it, so maybe my perceptions were a bit... tilted.
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See this is what I like to see out of a vlog, fairness - some video producers like to go over the top and say shit like 'this is the worst fucking movie ever and if you don't agree you deserve to die'. I totally respect that you can understand where there's an audience for this sort of thing.
I find it odd that there are fanboys of this movie flaming and trolling on here though, you were way more kind to it than a lot of people are being. Chill out people, it is Brad's right not to like a movie.
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I don't like this movie, but I wouldn't say this is the worst movie ever although I must say this is a pointless movie.
The plot of this movie isn't too bad, I mean, I've seen worse, but then the plot makes action scenes completely pointless since it has no meaning other than vague symbolism. You'll scratch your head and be annoyed by pointless interruption.
Then again, action scenes are pretty, sure, but it does not have any relevance to the plot other than symbolizing Baby-doll dancing and stealing items and other shit I don't really care about. That makes entire action scenes in the movie rather boring. I've never thought sword/gun fight could be so intense yet so boring.
Either this movie should have concentrated on the plot like Shutter Island style, or just action-based popcorn flick with hot chicks running around blowing shit up. (By the way, girls in this movie aren't that hot)
It's like showing a plain mixture of water and oil and expecting people to be amazed by telling the audience that water and oil cannot be mixed together.
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Completely 100% agree though I think I understood the plot a little better.
Anyways thanks for taking the words out of my mouth.
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I saw the trailer for this movie and knew it would be bad. I love zeppelins but whenever a new movie has them I know it gonna suck hardcore. Think about it has there been a (Mainstream) movie in the last 15 years that featured zeppelins in its trailer that was any good?
I don't know why I wrote this...Brad doesn't and I respect that to be honest as I reread this I don't care either but I'll hit submit because I'm bored.
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It's a dream world. What they say in it is not 100% true. You can have characters that are based off of people you saw in real life, but not actually be there.
If 3 of the girls really died, it would have been mentioned. Some have said that it means they were lobotomized, but the lobotomy guy wasn't even there yet.
Rocket never existed. the stuff between her and Sweat pea only happens in the brothel world, which is inside baby's head. The arguments Rocket and Sweat are having, represent the relation between Baby and her dead sister.
Or if you happen to believe that the movie does a main character switch, and we are REALLY in Sweet Pea's mind, it represents her debating to go or not, and then finally merging into one.
Either way, the dream world contradicts what happens in the real world. you should not take what happens in the dreams as 100% truthful.
And they did win. Baby got to escape from all her pain, got her father and the doctor in jail, and she got another innocent person who only ran away from her home out. Sometimes in movies you don't get the ideal situation as the win. baby came to the conclusion that she could "win" by escaping into her mind. She did win, just not the type of faerie tale win you wanted to see.
you argue that if they aren't real than that makes a bunch of stuff pointless. yeah....welcome to dream movies. This stuff always happens. The point of a dream movie is the symbolism, and chances are 75% of what you see is not really happening. That's the same with almost every dream movie. It's a cliche of the genre.
And making the female a villain is not empowerment. Ripley is female empowerment. I'm not suggesting everyone be goody too-shoes but the general cinema rule no one wants to root for the villain...except in slasher movies.
And the movie didn't even have any female empowerment. The message works just as well for guys. You already have what you need to succeed. That is a message for anyone. this movie just put a bunch of hot women in it to fit a stylistic choice.
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John Hamm as The Shadow would be so fucking awesome. I'd love to see that, perfect casting idea!
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I have to say I liked this movie, because I was expecting it to be insanely stupid with cool action sequences and I KIND OF liked the plot. I liked the movie but I really do agree with everything you say. Lots of the stuff was stupid and out of place and I liked it anyways. Nothing really stood out to me so I can't say much. It was like a roller coaster that you get on, have fun and then you go get on another ride.
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I had two reactions to the trailer.
1) Earlier trailer. Hot girls, giant samurai with machineguns, over the top action and no sense and reason... just awesome.
2) Recent trailer with story. What? That's seems idiotic and kind of pretentious. Why couldn't it be just action movie with strange world and style, not this...
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Uh, just saying, I found this movie quite easy to understand after it had finished. Throughout it I was a bit confused but at the end it was clear enough.
The mental asylum isn't a brothel, that was just in Sweet-Pea's imagination. The whole dancing bit was in her imagination, she imagined it that way because she imagined she was a great dancer and was liked for it. I thought it was made quite obvious since the evil guy had a moustache in the fantasy world (brothel) and was clean cut in the normal world.
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Just noticed there were other posts along the length of mine, so sorry for spamming
But yeh, I liked the movie, thought it was good fun, but I did like 300 XD
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I know it's in her head, I just didn't want to spoil that in the review, like I said.
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I loved the action scenes for their over-the-top appeal and thought the cast did a good job, but otherwise, the movie offended me.
A fantasy action film should be fun, but then Zack Snyder throws the proverbial "sucker punch" and shoves tragedy in our faces and a plot twist similar to that in Repo Men. Why couldn't he have just made a fun unpretentious film?
By the way, I respect that you acknowledge other people liking movies even if you don't agree with them, and that you're not mean about your opinions.
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I have to make a correction.
The scene with the zeppelins, planes and stuff, which actually was my favorite scene, is related to World War 1.
So not World War 2 of course.
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Sorry, my mistake =)
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Can someone please explain the 'Inception' thing with this movie?
So the Asylum wasn't real? Which characters were?
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This movie is indeed awful.
Just watch Sam Fuller's, Shock Corridor (1963) instead.
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Very much loved this movie, just saw it. Loved it, the opening sequence. Show not tell at its best since a long time.
It was a chick flick, women where the centre, the characterization, although a bit meager on the other characters was mainly focused at the women.
All the men where 2d symbolic villains, wich was a nice change from the norm. Looking at you Inception
I loved not seeing the sleazy dance, I really liked the over the top action. It made me giddy.
My kind of movie, and the steam punk soldiers deaths, steam instead of blood it worked.
Not everybody's cup of tea. But its a very well made movie.
Then again, I loathed the expendables.
Cheers
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Finally we seem to agree on a movie. I kinda just went and saw this on a whim, I guess it is because I don't go to the theatre's nearly as often as most people, but I can't remember a movie that pissed me off this much in a loong time.
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Вода, вода, вода автор учись писать информативно, А то много букв мало толку.
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jid z ehtjkl
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How could they kill the adorable little baby dragon!?Heartless bitches!
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I saw the trailers and it looks interesting so I still plan on seeing this but who knows just because a trailer looks good doesn't mean it is. I am not a big fan of slow mo since that stupid resident evil movie which overused it and not to mention the movie wasn't even any good. So that may annoy me. I had to stop watching since you said you were getting into spoilers but I will watch the rest after I have seen the movie.
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Ok I watched it and I liked it well enough. The slow mo did get somewhat annoying during some scenes but it wasn't to bad. The action scenes were fun but it did feel like a little to much during the middle and I was already a bit tired of it by that point.
Obviously it looked amazing and I really liked the style of the movie. The effects also looked really good and were fun to look at. The acting was well done which is more than I can say for most of the newer movies that have come out.
I liked the ending and it was kinda bittersweet but fit well with the movie. I will admit it was lacking in alot of places with the characters and the plot but it wasn't boring or bad enough to the point that I wouldn't watch it again.
I liked some of the music in it but at times it got on my nerves. All in all it was a good movie but by no means was it great. It has flaws and does tend to focus more on the action and special effects rather than the plot or characters but it was still really enjoyable.
On a side note I was not happy when they killed that poor baby dragon and when they went on that mission at first I was wondering why some of the scene looked so familiar and than I realized it looked somewhat like the lord of the rings.
Which happened to remind I could have been watching that instead and wondering why I wasn't {by that point I was getting pretty tired of the action scenes}.
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I can also see why people wouldn't like this movie so it doesn't bother me that alot of people think it sucks. I don't really understand why it is getting bashed so much though because yeah it's not a great movie but I have seen worse movies especially within the last few years.
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So now after Brad has had to put up with all the horribleness over the summer and so on (Transformers 3, Green Lantern, Spy Kids 4D, etc.), I wonder what his opinion is about it now. Lol. Also, if Spoony or Doug or whoever do another "Worst Movies of 2011" list, I cannot help but feel Brad will easily top all of them since him and his friends got to go out and see so many of the bad movies of the year.
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I was working at a cinema when Sucker Punch came out and I think I was the only person in my city who was looking forward to the film lol. Had just done an 8 hour shift and decided to go and watch it.
Came out with my mind blown. Mainly because I was a leetle tired and my brain was wanting something that didn't require a lot of thought-provoking but did have guns so I was in luck that day.
Whilst I see everyone's points of the plot (well lack of) and how bland the characters are, I still stand by it as something I can sit down and be entertained without having to pay too much attention, much like Transformers or Tron Legacy.
That's my opinion of course and can be dismissed on the grounds that I also like Spy Kids 2.
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I actually understood this movie. It's pretty bad when you make ME feel pretentious. So, here's all you need to know. Brothel is dream level 1, action sequences dream level 2. The action sequences symbolise the dancing which symbolises the actions taken to steal the items to escape the institute. That's it, but since you've stopped reading at this point, unicorns have invaded the death star and the only ones who can stop them are the telletubbies who are currently trapped on new york island and only snake pliskin can save them from the terminators ruled by sauron.
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